State Tobacco law

58

By Ohma

I am a former convenience store manager.

I recently lost my job.

I am having a hard time comprehending why.

I am having an even harder time understanding why the state after having first approved my unemployment benefit later rescinded the decision after an appeal from my former employer.

The law and policy that I was terminated for appearantly violating is the tobacco law.

I did not violate this law.

I did nothing that I could be arrested for.

I did not violate the stores policy in regards to this law.

Yet I have been terminated, and my only source of income taken from be because I was not accurately able to guess someones age.

 

My Story

 

The reason I lost my job is because I live in a place where the government will not get out of the business of raising our children. Because they have no way of penalizing parents who do not know what their children are doing they have placed the responsibility of controlling the children’s actions on store personnel, bar tenders and schoolteachers.

 

The state I live and work in currently has a tobacco law in place that requires store personnel to check ID for customers under the age of 27. It is legal to sell tobacco to anyone over the age of 18 but they must appear to be over 27 to not be carded. Now on the surface this may seem to be perfectly reasonable as I am sure everyone understands the need to discourage our youth from smoking, but when you take a deeper look into what the law requires it quickly becomes evident that sooner or later every person that works in this field will lose their job over this law.

The Law

 This law requires that any retailer who engages in the sale of tobacco must set up a compliance program that incorporates a once monthly compliance check of each store owned by the company. It also requires that companies employ an outside company to perform the checks and that company may use any person up to the age of 26-years & 364 days old to administer the check. The company administering the compliance check is allowed to instruct their employees on how to dress and make them selves appear older than they actually are. They are also allowed to instruct their employees to wait until the store is full of people and the store associates are busy as h*ll to administer the check.  Retailers are further more required to terminate any employee who fails 2 compliance checks in a 24month period.

Store Manager or Side show performer?

Now setting aside the fact that I am not a circus performer or a side show act whose job it is to guess peoples ages lets focus on the other no win situations this stupid law imposes on store personnel.

  1. How in the world do you have any way of knowing weather or not someone is of 26-years & 364 days old or 27?
  2. Why, if I have not committed a crime enforceable by law, can I be fired?
  3. Why, if the law prohibits sales to persons under 18, should I be responsible for carding adults?
  4. How can the state assume that if I fail to accurately guess how old some one is that I failed to adhere to the policy?
  5. When the compliance checkers are permitted to alter their appearance to intentionally bait store personnel why is this not entrapment?
  6. The instruction to ID everyone who appears to be under 27 is asking store personnel to form an opinion of that persons age right?
  7. How can the state or anyone else for that matter, tell me what my opinion of 27 is?

And finally why is it the responsibility of store associates to make sure that other people’s children are not buying tobacco?

Where does the resposibility lie?

Now I would really love to be able to blame the company for being terminated but the fact is that it is not their fault. They have done exactly as they are required to do by law and it would be unfair of me to place any blame on them right?

Wrong!

As I have said I filed for and received unemployment compensation. The states position was that even though I failed the compliance check that is not proof that I failed to adhere to the policy. The company immediately appealed this finding. They claimed that I willfully violated the policy because it was my second failure in 22 months.  First, second or 36th failure, I ask again how can they dictate to me what my opinion is, and how in the world can I be first fired and then denied unemployment benefits for forming an opinion that they instructed me to make?

 

The government’s position on making store personnel responsible for kids buying tobacco, bartenders responsible for minors purchasing alcohol, or schoolteachers responsible for what kids do to and from school (Yep this state does that too!)  is seriously messed up. The responsibility for all of these things should lie with the parents and yet the state continually re-enforces the acceptance of bad parenting by pushing these responsibilities off onto others.

Please

 Don't misunderstand me. It is not my intention to support children smoking or drinking. I just believe that my livelihood should not be placed in jeopardy because other people lack the skill or caring to parent their own children. If law enforcement personnel catch children in possession of tobacco or alcohol take them home and deal with their parents.

Keeping any job in America is not an easy thing. We really do not need the state imposing unrealistic expectations on blue collar workers to enforce ridiculous laws that they are not capable of enforcing. 

Comments

wsp2469 profile image

wsp2469 2 years ago

You are right. I worked for CRLLC/Conoco-Phillips/Kay-O Oil for a total of almost 8 years. I argued my way out of three "red cards" the company geeks tried to slap on me. Luckily, I'm educated and the company that hires these people does not always hire people who are too bright.

You're right. it should be the responsibility of the parents. Still, I find it odd that you got hit twice in that period of time and failed both times. The people I used to work with would just card everyone after their first offense. My old company had a policy of 35.

If it's any help, one of my most effective arguments has YET to be defeated: the policy uses SUBJECTIVE WORDS.

THis is important. Subjective means it has to do with YOUR opinion as opposed to OBJECTIVE. In other words, the policy says if the customers looks like he or she is under 35 you must card the person. IF the person looks under that age to you.

Someone should check out the exact wording of the policy you supposedly broke. If you can say the person did not look under 27 to ME then they should not have been able to fire you providing the wording of the policy implies objectively.

Mind you, if you signed papers that say you work for an AT WILL company they don't have to hire you back. I supposedly sent my gf an e-mail from the company time-clock/computer. HR could not prove it but they fired me anyway. They're an at will company. I honestly did not see myself retiring from that company so I figured why fight it?

Anyway,check out the wording of the policy. It might at least help you get your unemployment. My old company never fought my unemployment. it would probably be more expensive to prove I sent the e-mail then to pay me unemployment.

Ohma profile image

Ohma Hub Author 2 years ago

Wsp2469 thanks for visiting and your comment. The policy states as I said we must card everyone that appears to be under 27. It is worded exactly that was. I attempted to use the in my objective opinion argument when we went to the appeal hearing but the state wasn't having it. As far as carding everyone, that would also be a violation of company policy and by their own description a terminable offence. No out for me all I can do is rant about it now. I spent 20 some years working for this company and yes I did intend to retire from it but all that is gone now so I rant.

Ohma profile image

Ohma Hub Author 2 years ago

Also I was hit i believe 8 time total in that amount of time passed 6 and failed 2

Misha profile image

Misha 2 years ago

That sucks. But then government always sucks. Fuck them and move on, you can make a living with writing online :)

wsp2469 profile image

wsp2469 2 years ago

See that is bullshit. If there policy is worded so that it allows for subjectivity I don't see how the court could have argued with you. You had a real LAWYER, right?

Well, when I said card everyone I was not referring to your boss and anyone with nothing but grey hair and wrinkles. That's how some people who failed once or twice avoided getting fired. I can only suggest talking to a lawyer if you have not already. if you already have then I don't know what to tell you. I'm out of ideas since you have already been fired.

Ohma profile image

Ohma Hub Author 2 years ago

Misha - Thanks I am trying, I lack the knoledge that most of you guys and gals have to really get this rolling but I am trying.

wsp2469 - Been there done that. No help. Like I said all I can do is rant about it now. fortunately I rant well.

mod2vint profile image

mod2vint 2 years ago

OK so I'm a little late reading this. I was a C-store manager too, now I own one and am failing miserably. The one thing to remember is the burden of proof is on the buyer it is not for you to guess. I simply ask whats your birthday month day year and enter it in the register to be able to move on. Beer you better have that ID cause I don't care if your getting your buzz on or not, nobody is worth the fine or jail time.

Ohma profile image

Ohma Hub Author 2 years ago

Mod2vint Our company prohibited us from carding everyone that wanted to purchase Tobacco. They claimed it would be a violation of the customer service policy.

qwark profile image

qwark 20 months ago

Ohma:

I don't know how old you are or what your past educational experience is.

Try to get a city of county level job that considers workers to be "civil service."

If you are young enuf, stick with it until retirement.

It's damned hard to get rid of "civil service" empoyees.

Good luck!

Qwark

Ohma profile image

Ohma Hub Author 20 months ago

Quark

I have since writing this been able to secure employment With another company. Fortunately one that does not sell tobacco or alcohol. The point to the hub is still very relevant and I appreciate you stopping by.

Tammie 10 months ago

My boyfriend has recently been fired for the exact same thing, just 2 days ago. He also received his second "RED" card in 10 months. His company policy being the same, card anyone looking under the age of 27. Well, everybody has a different opinion when guessing the age of a person. How many times has the question "how old do you think I am, or guess how old I am." And how many times has that answer been right on the money. It is absolute crap. The company policies should just change their policy to "ID each and every person buying tobacco or alcohol", (which I agree would be a pain and people would not be happy), but maybe then people wouldn't be set up, in turn, losing their jobs, because they misjudged a person looking under 27. It's a matter of personal opinion and your own judgement guessing a person's age. It's not like you look at someone, and guess what age they might be, and the entire world agrees with that. It is an individuals own opinion. And people are losing their jobs, because their opinion and judgement, didn't pass the test. For crying out loud! That is so ridiculous. And, every one of these people involved in these "stings" are all of age. If they are buying alcohol, they have to be of legal alcohol age, if they are buying tobacco, they have to be of legal tobacco age. So, regardless if the associate did not card these "sting" people, they did not break the law, because they did not sell to minors. That is the law. Not selling alcohol or tobacco products to minors. I don't know how they can get away with this, and allow people to lose their jobs over it, but I am going to keep digging until I get somewhere, this cannot be right, and legal.

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